马尔：北京需要引渡罪犯的权力，是吗？

　　刘大使：我不这么认为。修例的提议由特区政府发起，正如行政长官所说，特区政府从未收到来自中央政府的指示或命令，这完全是特区政府的提议，是为了完善香港的法律体系。

Marr: These are powers that Beijing wants?

Ambassador: I don't think so. The whole thing was started by Hong Kong SAR government. Just as the Chief Executive said, she received no instruction from Beijing. She received no order from Beijing. It is completely the initiative launched by Hong Kong SAR government, to make Hong Kong system more perfect, to improve the legal system.

　　马尔：我们都看到了立法会受冲击的视频，香港警方似乎无法阻挡抗议示威者，如果中方认为形势失控、特区政府无法控局，中国中央政府会直接介入吗？

　　刘大使：你提到了“一国两制”50年不变，我们完全遵守这项承诺，这是毫无疑问的。从这件事开始一直到现在，中国中央政府从未进行任何干预，每个阶段都是特区政府在处理。相反，英国政府却在干涉，他们一开始对示威者表示支持。当暴徒冲击立法会时，他们又声称不能以暴力事件为借口进行镇压，他们企图破坏香港法治。对你的问题，我的回答十分明确，我们对特区政府有信心，而且事实已经证明他们有能力应对事态。

Marr: We've seen all the scenes in LegCo in Hong Kong recently. There seemed to be the case that the police there couldn't hold back the protesters. If you feel the situation is getting out of control and the Hong Kong authorities can't control things, does China interfere directly in Hong Kong?

Ambassador: You mentioned "One China, Two Systems" for 50 years. We are fully committed to this promise. There is no question about that. So you can see that from day one till now, the central government has not interfered at all. Every step of the way, we let the Hong Kong SAR government handle this. Instead, it is the British government that was trying to interfere, voicing support for the demonstrators. When the rioters stormed the Legislative Council, they even said that you can't use this violence as a pretext for repression. So they tried to obstruct the legal process. To answer your question in a simple way, we have full confidence in Hong Kong SAR government. And it shows that they are capable of handling the situation.

　　马尔：无论如何，修例将使向内地移交罪犯变得更加容易。彭定康称，事态正在逐步恶化，持有错误观点的人不能参加政治活动，媒体和大学言论自由被削弱。一些人在香港被劫持，然后被带回内地。

　　刘大使：我断然拒绝彭定康的指责。作为香港末任港督，他身体已经进入21世纪，但脑袋却仍留在旧殖民时代。修例并不会使从香港引渡罪犯变得更容易，修例有保障条款，37种罪行以外的不属于移交范围。比如，涉及宗教和政治类的不在引渡之列，而且罪行必须在香港、内地两地都成立。假设一个极端的例子，如果谋杀在香港不构成刑事犯罪，那么杀人犯就不会被引渡。

Marr: Nevertheless, this law would make it easier to extradite people to China. Chris Patten, the last governor, said, things have gone from bad to very bad to even worse. People with the wrong views have been banned from political activity. Freedom of speech has been whittled away in the media and in the universities. Beijing has even abducted individuals from Hong Kong and taken them back to the mainland.

Ambassador: I totally reject the accusation of Chris Patten. As the last governor of Hong Kong, his body is in the 21st century, but his head remains in the old colonial days. This bill won't make it easier for Hong Kong to extradite people to the mainland. There are many safeguards. You know, first of all, there are 37 clauses as safeguards in this Bill. That means, no people would be extradited to mainland because of their religious or political beliefs. And the crime has to be punishable in both places. That means, to make an extreme case, if murder was not regarded as a crime in Hong Kong, then people who committed murder would not be extradited to the mainland.

　　马尔：近期中英之间争吵十分激烈。亨特甚至威胁要对中国实施制裁，中英关系出现危机了吗？

　　刘大使：我不这样认为。我们对外交争论不感兴趣，中方仍致力于与英国发展强劲有力的伙伴关系。我还记得上次接受你的专访，是在习近平主席2015年对英国进行国事访问前夕。

Marr: There has been a very, very angry row by diplomatic standards. Jeremy Hunt is still threatening further, possibly, sanctions and so forth against China if it goes on. Is this a moment when British-Chinese relations are in real crisis?

Ambassador: I don't think so. We are not interested in diplomatic row with the UK. We are still committed to building stronger relationship, partnership. The "Golden Era" started by President Xi -- I still remember the last time you interviewed me was before President Xi's visit in 2015 --