乐：债务是一个中性词。搞经济的，多多少少都要涉及债务。但是我们讨论的债务问题同“一带一路”没有必然联系。首先，债务的成因很复杂，有多种因素。有的是经济基本面出了问题，有的是历史遗留下来多年积累的旧账，还有国际和经济环境出现变化，比如保护主义抬头、一些发达国家加息、主要储备货币升值，还有大宗商品价格跳水等。我到过赤道几内亚，这个非洲国家曾经非常贫穷，后来发现了石油，在1997年到2007年这十年油价高企时，连续十年GDP增幅超过26%，人均GDP突破2万美元。但这几年油价下跌，GDP连续负增长，去年为负5.3%，人均GDP降到8000美元。这说明，外界经济环境变化对这些国家影响很大。刚果（布）也是类似情况，过去欠了不少西方石油中间商债务。

Le Yucheng: Debt is a neutral term commonly used in economics. The debt issue we are talking about here is not necessarily linked to the BRI. To start with, the cause for debt is complicated and involves many factors, including economic fundamentals, historical debt baggage, or changing international and economic environment like rising protectionism, interest rates hike in some advanced economies, appreciation of major reserve currencies as well as plummeting commodity prices.

I've been to Equatorial Guinea, a small country in Africa. It used to be a very poor country, and then they discovered oil. Between 1997 and 2007 when the oil price was at its height, the country’s GDP grew by over 26% for 10 years in succession with a per capita GDP exceeding US$20,000. However, in recent years, the declining oil price has brought its GDP growth rate into the negative territory, -5.3% in 2017. And the per capita GDP fell to US$8,000. That shows how changes in external economic environment affect these countries. Republic of the Congo faces a similar situation. It has taken on a lot of debt with western oil brokers.

　　第二，中国是国际投融资市场的后来者，“一带一路”倡议才搞了五年，中国企业“走出去”开拓全球市场也没多少年。应该说，债务问题不应由中国来承担责任。你讲到斯里兰卡，事实上，我也高度关注该国情况。根据斯里兰卡央行2017年度报告，其外债总额是500多亿美元。中国的债务占10%左右，而且中国60%以上贷款是优贷，利率远低于国际市场。斯里兰卡也发行了不少主权债券，吸引美国和西方投资者，市场借贷主要来自主权债券，占斯里兰卡外债的39%。亚洲开发银行债务占14%，日本12%，世行11%，中国只占10%。

Secondly, China is a latecomer in international investment and financing markets. It's just been five years since the BRI was put forward. And it hasn’t been that many years since Chinese companies started to explore the global market. So one should not hold China accountable for all the debts.

You mentioned Sri Lanka. I have followed the situation in Sri Lanka closely. According to the 2017 annual report issued by its central bank, Sri Lanka’s total foreign debt is over US$50 billion. China only accounts for about 10%. Plus, over 60% of Chinese loans are concessional loans, with an interest rate much lower than the international level.

Sri Lanka has issued a lot of sovereign bonds to attract American and Western investors. So government financing constitutes a major source of market lending, which takes up 39% of the total external debt. The country has also borrowed from other sources, the ADB 14%, Japan 12%, and the World Bank 11%. China only accounts for about 10%.

　　至于汉班托塔港，这个项目是应斯里兰卡请求建设和运营的。斯里兰卡多年的愿望是利用地理优势打造一个印度洋上的物流中心、仓储中心。过去因为打仗、内乱不好办，现在稳定了，特别希望建设一个国际化港口，所以找到我们。特许经营权也是斯方提出的，中国企业因为对情况不是很熟悉，起初很犹豫。后来经过反复研究、磋商，克服大量困难同斯方达成共识。中资企业同斯方成立两家合资企业并持有股份。另外我还要强调的是，汉港的主权和所有权始终是斯里兰卡的，项目建好了，需要时还可以回购中国企业股份，直至全部收回。

About the Hambantota port, the project was built and run at the request of the Sri Lankan side. For years, Sri Lanka had hoped to make good use of its geographical location and build the country into a logistic and warehouse hub in the Indian ocean. In the past, because of civil war and conflict, they were unable to do so. Now the situation is stable, to build an international port is back on their agenda. And they looked for help from China.

The idea of the operation right also came from the Sri Lankan side. The Chinese company was hesitant at first because they were not familiar with such situation. After careful studies and rounds of consultation and negotiation, the Chinese company overcame difficulties and reached agreement with the Sri Lankan side to set up two joint ventures, and had acquired corresponding stakes.