刘大使：中国没有政治犯。没有人是因为不同政见入狱。入狱服刑者都是因为违法了中国法律。
主持人：中国的法律事实上阻止政治反对派存在，谁不和党保持一致，就是违法。
刘大使：根本不存在你说的情况。
主持人：过去两或三年，中国加大了对社会各种思想、行动的监控。
Ambassador: The people will not be put behind the bars just because of their thoughts. The people are put behind the bar because they have violated the law in China.
Sackur: But your laws preclude genuine political opposition.
Ambassador: No.
Sackur: If people are dissenting from the party line, they will very quickly find themselves contravening your laws.
Ambassador: No.
Sackur: Not only that, we have seen in the last two or three years, the creation of a surveillance society in China, where every thought and every move made by your population is surveilled.
刘大使：我来问问你，英国有多少监控探头？
主持人：没有中国那么多。英国并不是世界上拥有监控探头最多的国家。
刘大使：你怎么解释英国人均监控探头数量非常多这种情况？
主持人：我想说的是，中国监控探头数量达到每两人一个，中国人口有14亿，这是一个难以想象的被监控的社会。为什么要进行监控？
Ambassador: Can I ask you a question? How many surveillance CCTVs are there here in the UK?
Sackur: Not as many as in China.
Ambassador: But in per capita…
Sackur: We are not one of the highest …
Ambassador: So how would you explain this situation?
Sackur: I would explain the situation by pointing out that in China,
Ambassador: But I am asking you about the CCTV in the UK.
Sackur: In China, there will be one CCTV camera for every two people. You have 1.4 billion people. That is an unimaginable surveillance society. What's it for?
刘大使：你去过中国吗？
主持人：去过。
刘大使：最近一次去中国是什么时候？
主持人：大约三年前。
Ambassador: Have you been to China?
Sackur: I have been to China.
Ambassador: When was your last visit to China?
Sackur: It was probably about three years ago.
刘大使：在中国，人民是很自由、很幸福的。难道你没有感受到吗？你认为中国人民处于被压迫、被恐吓的状态并且有很多不满吗？在中国，你到处都能看到人们的笑脸。当然，任何社会都会有人有不满，但中国人民有表达意见的渠道。我们有人民代表大会和政治协商制度。你认为，中国没有街头政治，所以中国就没有民主。但是，中国的民主是中国特色的民主。你们不能用自己的标准去评判别的国家，就像我们不用自己的标准来评判你们。
主持人：我们讨论一下中国西部的省份新疆，那里存在大范围镇压情况。最近有媒体披露了一些关于镇压维族人的中国共产党官方文件，显示过去两年多成千上万的维族人被关进看起来无异于监狱的“营地”。这是为什么？
Ambassador: I think in China, you will feel that people are very free and very happy. You can't feel it? You feel people are under harassment, people are threatened, and they have a lot of complaints? You can see smiling face on the Chinese people. Yes, people have some complaints. In any society people will have the complaint. But people have their channels to make their complaints known. We have the National People's Congress and National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. You feel China has no street politics, so China has no democracy. But China's democracy is of Chinese characteristic. You can't use your standard to judge other country, just like we would not judge you based on our standard.
Sackur: Let's then talk about Xinjiang, one of the provinces in western China, which sees the greatest repression. Now you will know as well as I do in recent days, we've seen a new slew of leaks of official Communist Party documents which show the extent of the repression of the Uyghur Muslim people of Xinjiang. We know that hundreds and thousands of people over the last two years have been interned in camps – camps which looked to the outside eye like prisons. Why?
Ambassador: First let me tell you, there are no such leaked documents. I said in the very clear-cut term during my press conference, this is fake news, this is a made-up story with ulterior motives. There are no such leaked documents. It is made up.
Sackur: Just because you call them fake news doesn't mean they are fake.
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