主持人：行政长官这样的关键岗位的选举并不是普选。行政长官候选人由北京提名，由上千人组成的选委会来选。我认为，中国内地同胞正在密切关注香港人追求真正的自由民主最终会得到什么样的结果，这才是你们担心的事。
刘大使：你又忽略另一个更大的问题。你提及的问题太多，让我一个一个解释。首先是全民普选，如果反对派在2015年没有投票否决普选方案，2017年就可以实现普选。那不是百分之百的全民普选，但是全民普选要一步一步来。
Sackur: There isn't anything like universal suffrage for the key post of Chief Executive. That is ultimately a choice that is based upon nominees selected from Beijing and ultimately voted upon by about 1,000 people. That is very far from universal suffrage. What it seems to me is that in the end, Beijing is scared about what is happening in Hong Kong because you fear that the rest of your population in the rest of your nation is watching very carefully to see what happens to this call for genuine, genuine freedom and democracy in Hong Kong.
Ambassador: I think you missed another big picture. You know, you raised so many topics, so many issues. Let's go one by one. Firstly, about the universal suffrage, as I said, if it had not been for the veto of the opposition to the political reform programme in 2015, by 2017, two years ago, the chief executive would have been selected by universal suffrage. Yes, it's not a hundred percent universal suffrage, but it has to go step by step.
主持人：大使先生，你是一位外交官，不应粉饰普选。
刘大使：全民普选涉及两个选举，一是特区行政长官，另一个是香港立法会。如果反对派没有否决2015年普选方案，明年的香港立法会选举将是全民普选，7百万人一人一票。
主持人：这些都不会发生，香港没有全民普选。不久前北京宣布香港高等法院有关《禁止蒙面规例》不符合基本法的判决无效，这是在侵蚀“一国两制”的基础。
Sackur: Ambassador, you are still a diplomat. You can't dress up.
Ambassador: You know, when we talk about universal suffrage, there are two areas. One is chief executive and the other is legislative council. Right? So if it had not been for the blocking by the opposition, next year, legislative election will be universal suffrage – one man one vote in Hong Kong for 7 million people.
Sackur: It's not going to be. There isn't universal suffrage. We've just seen the Communist Party in Beijing declared that a decision taken by the High Court in Hong Kong to disregard Carrie Lam's ban on face mask, according to Beijing, according to your Party, is now null and void. So you are now intruding on the fundamental principle of "One Country, Two Systems".
刘大使：你的说法是完全错误的。你没有给我时间回答你所有的问题。你谈到中国国内的根本性问题，你还说中国担心香港事态泛滥影响内地。事实并非如此。我们刚刚庆祝了中华人民共和国成立70周年，你应该看到中国在过去70年取得了怎样巨大的成就。中国人民的生活更加美好，更加幸福，寿命也更长。70年来，中国人民预期寿命从35岁提升至77岁。世界上哪个国家取得了这样的成就？改革开放40年来，中国从世界第11大经济体成长为第二大经济体，7亿人民实现脱贫。中国人民热爱中国共产党，中国共产党是中国的脊梁！你说香港事态会在中国其他地方引起外溢效应，这样的情况根本不存在。
主持人：你描绘了一幅美妙的画卷。
刘大使：我没有描绘，这些都是事实。
Ambassador: No, not at all. I think you gave me no opportunity to answer all your questions. You talked about the fundamental question, about the situation in China. You said that people are concerned about what is going on that might spill over to China. That is not the case. You know, we just celebrated 70th anniversary of the founding of the People's Republic of China. So you have to realize what the achievement China has made in the past 70 years. People are living better, happier and longer. So within 70 years, we elevated people's life expectancy from 35 to 77. You tell me which country has this achievement. In the past 40 years since reform and opening up, China's status in terms of the world ranking rose from the 11th to the second largest economy. And we have elevated 700 million people out of poverty. So people love Communist Party of China, and Communist Party of China is the backbone of the country. So there will be no such thing as you talk about what happened to Hong Kong will spill over or cause some huge demonstration in China.
Sackur: You painted a fascinating picture.
Ambassador: I didn't paint a fascinating picture. It's the fact.
主持人：没有人质疑中国政府过去几十年来取得的经济成就。如果你坚持认为中国人民生活幸福，那中国政府为何如此害怕不同意见？
刘大使：我们不害怕任何不同意见。
主持人：那为什么中国会有政治犯？
Sackur: Let us explore what you just said, because you're taking it beyond Hong Kong.
Ambassador: You are taking me beyond Hong Kong.
Sackur: Nobody would doubt the incredible economic achievements of the Chinese government over decades. If you are so insistent that the people of your country are so very happy, why is your government apparently so frightened of dissent inside your country?
Ambassador: We're not frightened of any dissent.
Sackur: How many political prisoners are there in China?
Ambassador: There is no political prisoner in China.
Sackur: Ambassador, that's not true.
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