Ambassador Liu Xiaoming Gives Exclusive Interview on BBC's HARDtalk
2019年11月26日，驻英国大使刘晓明接受英国广播公司（BBC）《尖锐对话》栏目资深主持人斯蒂芬·萨克专访，就涉港、涉疆、中国和平发展道路等问题阐释中方立场。专访现场实录如下：
On November 26, H.E. Ambassador Liu Xiaoming gave an exclusive interview on BBC's HARDtalk hosted by Stephen Sackur to explain China's position on Hong Kong, Xinjiang and China's peaceful development. The full transcript is as follows.
主持人：刘晓明大使，欢迎来到《尖锐对话》栏目。
刘大使：谢谢！
主持人：很高兴邀请你接受我们栏目专访。让我们从香港问题开始。香港持续动乱，这是否是习近平主席就职7年以来面临的最大挑战？
Sackur: Ambassador Liu Xiaoming, welcome to HARDtalk.
Ambassador: Thank you for having me.
Sackur: It's a pleasure to have you here. Let us start with Hong Kong. President Xi Jinping has been in power for 7 years. Would you accept that the prolonged unrest and instability in Hong Kong is the greatest challenge he has faced in his presidency?
刘大使：中国政府的立场十分清楚。12天前，习近平主席出席金砖国家领导人会议期间发出最权威的声音，那就是，止暴制乱、恢复秩序是香港当前最紧迫的任务。
主持人：中方几个月来一直在讲这些话，但香港的暴力局面从初夏开始到现在仍在持续。除了暴力局面，还有上周日香港区议会选举结果所体现的民众普遍的政治呼声。香港民众投票让民主派取得绝对多数席位，明确表达了对香港特区政府和中央政府的严重不满。
Ambassador: I think our government's policy is clear. Twelve days ago, President Xi made a very authoritative statement when he attended the BRICS summit. He said the top priority for Hong Kong is to end violence and restore order.
Sackur: With respect, he's been saying that for months. The violence began in early summer and violence continues. Not just the violence. We also have the massive political expression represented by the results of last Sunday's Council elections. The people of Hong Kong have squarely, by an overwhelming majority, expressed their grave dissatisfaction with the Hong Kong and Beijing authorities.
刘大使：首先，我认为你需要将和平示威者与暴力犯罪分子区别开来。你提到最近区议会选举，这正说明习近平主席阐述的严正立场产生了积极影响。只有在和平的环境下，民众才能行使民主权利。
主持人：那么这次选举的结果意味着什么？候选人中既有很多是建制派，也有不少是代表反对派和街头民主抗议者的观点，选民们是可以选择的。结果是，反对派赢得452个议席中的400个，取得压倒性多数，在18个区议会中，17个被他们控制。
Ambassador: First thing first. I think you have to separate the peaceful demonstrators from the violent rioters. You mentioned the latest Council elections. That exactly shows that President Xi's message, loud and clear, has been well received, that you can only exercise the right for democracy in a peaceful environment.
Sackur: If I may just continue with the story about what the Council elections tell us. They had a choice. They had a lot of pro-Beijing candidates. They had a lot of candidates expressing views of the opposition and the protestors, pro-democracy protesters, on the streets. And the overwhelming majority, almost 400 out of the 452 seats, went to those opposition figures. The figures are actually extraordinary, 70% of turnout, 17 of 18 Councils now controlled by the pro-democracy political movement.
刘大使：首先，我认为你不应过度解读所谓反对派取得“压倒性胜利”。虽然看上去反对派赢得18个区议会中的17个，但从得票率上看，是60%比40%，40%的选民没有把选票投给反对派。其次，在任何国家包括在西方国家选举中，在暴乱、动乱和经济放缓等背景下，当政者总是容易失去更多选票。而这些正是暴力犯罪分子造成的，他们给香港带来了巨大麻烦。
主持人：可是，刘大使，你和许多中国官员这几个月来一直在对我们说，香港“沉默的大多数”并不支持民主抗议示威，他们拥护中央政府。我们现在知道事实并非如此。
Ambassador: I don't think you should have an over interpretation of the so-called landslide victory of the opposition. Though it's 17 out of 18 Councils, in terms of votes, it's 40% versus 60%. So 40% of the voters voted against the opposition. Secondly, like in any country, even in Western culture, incumbents tend to lose votes, if there is a riot, if there is violence, if there is slowdown of economy. Exactly, that is caused by the violent law-breakers. They cause the big trouble in Hong Kong.
Sackur: But if I may say so, Ambassador, you and many of the Chinese officials have been saying to people like me for months that the silent majority of people in Hong Kong are not with the pro-democracy protesters and demonstrators. They are with Beijing. That's not true and we now know that.
刘大使：我认为目前下结论还为时过早。我刚说了40%的选民没有把选票投给反对派。根据媒体报道，建制派候选人受到骚扰、干扰、威胁，一些人甚至遇刺，比如何君尧先生。这些暴力极端分子制造恐怖气氛，让一些选民无法前往投票站投票，我称之为“黑色恐怖”。
主持人：大使先生，你和我一样在电视上看到香港发生的一切，香港警察近几个月来对抗议示威者实施了野蛮的暴力“镇压”，但未奏效。林郑月娥行政长官最终代表的是中国中央政府的利益。她开始的应对策略是用撤销修例平息民主抗议，但不管用。之后，她明确指示警察要更强硬，但也不管用。中央政府现在要做什么？
Ambassador: I think it's still too early to tell. I said 40%, OK. According to some reports, pro-establishment candidates have been harassed, interrupted, threatened and there was even an attempted assassination of one of them, you know, Mr. Ho Kwan-yiu.These violent radicals created terror. I called it "black terror". So that really prevented people from going to the poll.
Sackur: Ambassador, you watched events in Hong Kong from afar like I do on television and you see just as I do the brutal crackdown that Hong Kong police have been implementing against the protesters for months now. The point is that it hasn't worked. Carrie Lam's strategy – she is of course Chief Executive of Hong Kong, representing the interests of Beijing ultimately – she began with a strategy which was built on withdrawing the extradition bill, hoping that would quell the pro-democracy protesters. That didn't work. She then clearly instructed the police to get tough. We've seen that doesn't work. What's Beijing gonna do now?
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