刘大使：首先，根本不存在所谓被披露的文件，我在日前举行的记者会上已经说的很清楚了，这是别有用心的人炮制的假新闻，是编造的故事。我们跟国内有关部门核实过，根本不存在这样的文件。第二，我想谈一下新疆的现状。你去过新疆吗？
主持人：还没有。如果中方邀请，我很乐意去。
刘大使：当然可以。中国有句话：不到新疆，不知道中国之大；不到新疆，不知道中国之美。新疆是和睦、繁荣的好地方，但自上世纪90年代至2016年，发生了很多让人不愿看到的事情，新疆某种程度上变成了“战场”，发生了数千起恐怖袭击事件，成千无辜群众遇难。仅2014年，每3天就发生2起恐袭事件。民众无法安全出行，纷纷呼吁政府采取应对措施。所以，政府依法设立了“职业教育技能培训中心”，目的是去极端化。
Ambassador: Let talk about the documents. I have double checked with the relevant department authorities. There are no such leaked documents. Secondly, let's talk about what is happening in Xinjiang. Have you been to Xinjiang yourself?
Sackur: No, I haven't. I would love to go and if you're prepared to invite me to travel.
Ambassador: Definitely. We have a saying, if you do not go to Xinjiang, you do not know how vast China is and how beautiful China is. This place used to be very peaceful and very prosperous. But between 1990s and 2016, it was not the scene we'd like to see. It became a battleground. There were thousands of terrorist attacks. Thousands of innocent people got killed or injured. In 2014 alone, there were two terrorist attack cases per three days. People cannot walk safely in the street during those days. So people call for the government to take actions. The government, according to law, set up the vocational education and training centres. The purpose is to de-radicalize some young people especially.
主持人：那些文件中包括警用电棍、手铐、辣椒水等采购订单，说明“集中营”使用了这些东西。
刘大使：这是一派胡言。
主持人：这些文件都是千真万确的，美国和其他一些国家都认为是真实的。美国副总统彭斯表示，中国拘押了100万维族人，对他们进行不间断洗脑。
Sackur: These are camps where you know that you have used police batons, electric cattle prods, handcuffs, pepper sprays inside these camps. We know because we've seen the procurement orders for all of these things which have been leaked.
Ambassador: This is not true.
Sackur: Well, it is. You can keep telling me these leaks aren't true, but it is clear these are genuine documents. The United States government, amongst many others, has said that. This is the quote from Michael Pence, the Vice President, the Communist Party has imprisoned as many as a million Muslim Uyghurs in camps where, his words, "they endure around the clock brainwashing".
刘大使：彭斯的话不足为信，他是一个反华派。你称他是副总统，我看他是一个反华的“冷战”斗士，他的话根本不值一评。我们继续讨论新疆的情况。
主持人：但他是美国副总统。
刘大使：作为副总统，我们尊重他，但不能同意他对中国极尽妖魔化的言论。
Ambassador: I do not believe in Michael Pence. He's a China basher. You call him Vice President, but I think he's a Cold War warrior against China. His words do not stand with me. So we don't talk about Michael Pence. We talk about what is going on in Xinjiang.
Sackur: You do have your views about Michael Pence. He happens to be the Vice President of the United States.
Ambassador: We show respect when he is Vice President, but I can't agree with him when he is demonizing China.
主持人：你们的确遇到了问题。我们刚才讨论了香港局势和维族人问题。美国国会刚刚通过了《香港人权与民主法案》，准备制裁带头镇压示威者的香港官员。你本人也被英国外交大臣拉布“召见”了。中国处于守势，是否反映出你们的外交面临巨大压力？
刘大使：我认为西方国家应该为干涉中国内政而感到巨大压力。如果中国全国人大通过一项与英国某地方有关的法律，表达我们的关切并实施制裁，你们会怎么想？现在是21世纪，不是“炮舰外交”时代。这些做法完全违背国际法准则，中国不会再任人欺凌。
Sackur: But you have a problem here, Ambassador. We talked about Hong Kong. We talked about what you're doing to the Uyghurs in the west of your country. The United States Congress has just passed a new round of targeted sanctions against officials in Hong Kong who are leading the crackdown against the protesters. Your diplomatic position, and you know it well yourself because you've just been hauled over the calls by Dominic Raab, the Foreign Secretary in London, you know that your diplomatic position as the Chinese government defends what is happening is coming under enormous pressure.
Ambassador: I don't think so. I think the Western countries are under enormous pressure for interfering in China's internal affairs. Let me say this. What if China's National People's Congress passed a law concerning a region in the United Kingdom to express our concern and to impose sanction on your politicians if you do not follow the law, what do you think about? It's totally against international norm that's governing the international relations. We are in the 21st Century. We are not in the age of the gunboat diplomacy. China is not a country you can kick around.
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