FT：我想回到欧委会正在讨论的这个提议。荷兰政府已向欧盟建议，对国有企业或国家支持的企业采取更严格措施，特别是提高非欧盟国家的相关企业收购欧洲资产的门槛。您如何看待此事？是否认为它是针对中国的，这一提议是否符合公平竞争原则？

　　张明：前一段时期，欧盟表示，欧洲将不再天真，但其具体内涵一直不是很清晰。我的强烈印象是，欧盟强调多边主义、市场经济是自己的基因。当然，我也注意到欧盟采取的一些措施和提出的一些设想，比如在投资审查、5G网络安全、自由贸易等方面。这的确引起中国在欧企业界人士的疑虑，也影响了中国对欧投资。我本人参与推动中欧合作，也密切关注和跟踪有关动向。

FT: Could I come back on one element which is the proposal for discussion by the European Competition Commissioner. There has been proposal by the Dutch government as well in this area to take a tougher line on state-owned or state supported enterprises, and in particular to consider rules which might make it more difficult for state-owned or state supported enterprises from outside the European Union to purchase European Union assets or companies. Could I get your views please on this proposal? Do you think this is directed at China and do you think it respects the concept of fair competition?

Zhang: For some time I've heard many European friends saying that Europe should no longer be naive. I am trying to figure out what that means exactly and I am still confused. But my impression is that the EU often says that multilateralism and market economy are in its DNA.

I have noticed some recent proposals and developments on the EU side regarding FDI screening, 5G, and free trade. That has got some Chinese entrepreneurs working in Europe suspicious. That also has some kind of impact on Chinese investments in the EU. My colleagues and I are strongly committed to promoting China-EU cooperation, so I am following the developments with interest and concerns.

　　当然，我不会匆忙下结论，给欧方“扣帽子”。我认为欧盟不会允许自己的基因发生变异，否则结果不可想象。我希望欧盟继续坚持多边主义、自由贸易，坚持公开、公平、公正、非歧视原则。至于国有企业，欧盟成员国也有大量国有企业。无论是今天还是历史上，这些企业为欧洲经济社会发展发挥了重要作用。

　　中国实行混合所有制的经济制度。我们拥有国有企业，也有大量私营企业和外资企业。我们实行市场经济原则，对所有企业一视同仁。不管是欧盟的国企还是非欧盟的国企，我希望欧盟都能公平对待，不能因为企业的所有制而采取歧视性政策。

But now I would not rush to a definite conclusion or give the EU a definition. I don't think that the EU friends want to see their DNA changed, otherwise it would be disastrous for them. What I hope to see is that the EU will keep to the principles of multilateralism, free trade as well as the principles of openness, fairness, justice and non-discrimination.

As for state-owned enterprises, as far as I know, there are a great number of SOEs in European countries as well. Whether nowadays or in history, these companies have played an important role in Europe's economic and social development. In China, we have a mixture of companies of different kinds of ownerships. We have state-owned enterprises, private enterprises and also foreign-invested enterprises. In the market economy, all these companies are treated as equals.

We hope that the EU would not discriminate against a certain kind of companies simply because of their ownership structure. Otherwise it's not fair and not in line with the spirit of fair competition. Be it European SOEs or non-EU SOEs.

　　FT：欧洲的态度似乎是，欧盟拥有泛欧国家援助规则，对欧洲国有企业或寻求国家支持的企业进行规范。但这些国家援助规则不适用于海外公司，也不适用于外国政府向欧盟以外公司提供的援助。因此，欧方要努力营造公平竞争环境。您似乎认为欧方有关措施可能是灾难性的，并对此感到担忧。您是否担心欧洲对中国投资的吸引力下降？

　　张明：资本是非常敏感的，可以说是“胆小鬼”。一有风吹草动，他们就会警觉起来，甚至拔腿就跑。一个政策好还是不好，要看市场反应。

FT: The European attitude seems to be that there are pan-European state aid rules governing European state-owned enterprises or those seeking state support. Those state aid rules do not apply to overseas companies or aid given to companies from outside European Union by foreign governments. So they say they are trying to create a level playing field. What you're saying is that you are concerned about the potentially disastrous move. Are you worried that Europe is going to become a less attractive place for China to invest?

Zhang: Actually capitals are very sensitive and even cowardly in some cases. In case of any signs of unwelcome changes, they would be highly vigilant or even scared away. To judge a policy is good or not, it is important to look at how market responds.